Wednesday, November 01, 2006


Her baby isn't very sick and will be in the NICU only a few more days. When mother comes to visit she is polite, nice and neat, and appropriately dressed. Her eleven year old daughter, often wearing her school uniform, usually comes with her. I really like the mother, but there's just one thing about her that bugs me: she has a moustache.

I don't mean just a little darkening of her upper lip, like many women have. She has a nearly full set of bristles, a moustache that many a teenage boy would be proud to have. There's no missing it; it's really quite manly.

I don't get it. This otherwise very nice and seemingly normal woman goes around with a moustache. It's hard to believe that she doesn't notice it, because it's hard to miss. She's not the only mom I've seen like this, either. Periodically we have mothers who have a lot of facial hair. I remember one who had a very nice goatee. That is, it would have been nice if it were on a man.

I don't mean to sound insensitive here. I'm sure that facial hair is a vexing problem for many women. Also, I'm sure that many of the mothers I deal with don't have a lot of money to spend on expensive facial hair remedies, such as laser treatment or electrolysis or even hair stripping by a beautician. But still - shaving and putting a little makeup on to hide the stubble or using a dipilatory can't be very expensive. Why don't some women do that?

I realize that this is not the most serious issue we deal with in the NICU, but it is one of the most puzzling. There's an old Happy Days episode (I'm really dating myself here) where Fonzie is expounding on desirable attributes in a woman. When he says "no moustache," Richie and the boys all nod and murmur assent. I think that's a pretty universal opinion.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

because mothers of NICU patients have recently been PREGNANT, and pregnant women are advised to stay away from bleaching agents of all kinds for fear of hurting your patients!

6:33 PM  
Blogger T. Comfyshoes said...

Doc, I appreciate your honesty in sharing your feelings, but I have two things to point out to you.

1. These women have not only just given birth, they have a baby in NICU. Things like hair removal and putting on makeup are probably pretty low on their priority list. As they should be. (And if they've had a difficult pregnancy prior to giving birth, I can see letting things slide long enough to grow a goatee)

2. Just because men find something unattractive, doesn't mean women have to change it about ourselves. A lot of us have many more important things to worry about than whether men find a particular aspect attractive. Nowhere in the social contract does it say women are obligated to make an effort to be pretty at all times for the enjoyment of men.

6:36 PM  
Blogger Felix Kasza said...

t. comfyshoes --

while the social contract does not, indeed, make mention of moustaches on females, that is only because that contract is unwritten. You can, for example, expect me to be groomed to some reasonable standard, such as: no stinking; clean clothing; and ahaircut that makes me look vaguely human instead of strongly orang utan. I have similar expectations the other way.

As for women with a baby in the NICU, that argument is fallacious. Extending it leads to not showering, just as "breastfeeding is *natural*" leads to people defecating on the dinner table.


7:12 PM  
Anonymous misha said...

I think you can forgive yourself for this one---It is just a thought, people. It is hard to to focus on the conversation at hand when a woman has a mustache (or a man has breasts for that matter)---even if they are going through a rough time! I am blonde with very fine hair so no facial growth. My 17 year old daughter is dark and beautiful with a lot of growth. I mentioned it one day, found she was very self conscious about it so I took her for a wax. I think the first time is embarassing but then it is just one of those things you have to take care of. The hospital I go to with my child has a salon......Maybe they should give new moms complimentary facials!! Seriously....there is a lot of downtime when your kid is in the NICU.

7:36 PM  
Blogger Flea said...

Man: Sir, there's a man here to see you with a moustache.

Groucho: Tell him I've already got one.



8:29 PM  
Blogger PaedsRN said...

I'm sure your patients will be relieved to know you're focusing on their facial hair, ND ;)

Seriously, you do notice the oddest things. I am rather poorly groomed, and not at all fit, so I'm sure my patient's families notice those things about me.

I vividly recall one mother who was, shall we say, not 'petite', wearing a tight white G-string and pants that tended to slide downward when she bent over. We tried not to notice, but I was working in an area with a large patient observation window that could be seen from the desk, and she would bend over right in front of the window... it was almost hypnotic.

It just goes to show, health professionals are all too human.

9:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hehehe, thats hilarious...looks like you touched a raw nerve with anon 6:33 PM...she probably has a nice little moustache and beard of her own!!!!
PaedsRN...i have a weakness for cleavage...cannot help but check out the goods if they are being dished out;)

10:43 PM  
Blogger Kelley said...

teeheeheehee. Aside from the laughing, I get so tired of hearing about the woe-is-me NICU mom who has more important things to worry about, blah, blah, hormones, worry, blah, blah. I went out of my way to look nice when I visited my son every day. Gave me more confidence when dealing when doctors and nurses, etc. You guys are cutting yourselves short making excuses all of the time. NICU sucks but it doesn't have to make us all emotional and physical, c'mon.

11:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i see some beautifully groomed, clean, low socio-economic mothers, who make a real effort to take care of themselves, partially, they say (when i comment on how lovely they look), because they feel as though everything else is so crappy at the moment, it's one thing they can do to make themselves feel a bit better. Yes, possibly shallow, but as Kelley said, you've got to do what you can.
I have nothing but respect for these women. I don't have less respect for the ones who don't take care of themselves, as such, but it often reflects on their attitudes towards things. Just saying what I've noticed...

11:34 PM  
Blogger WendyLou said...

I have no idea why she would do nothing.... I see the waxing lady every other week, like clock work, so I don't have facial hair..... Pregnancy did do a number on my skin, and waxing was more painful and difficult, and this is from a woman who has waxed every other week for a decade.

In one of my many "you're going to have a C/S NOW" scares, I had planned to go for my waxing appointment after my NST.... I had to call and cancel the appointment, and with all the craziness, I was worried about how hairy I would be in my new mommy pictures. My mom was lecturing me about even having the appointment, when my OB came in to check things out. My mom wanted her to join in on the Wendy is selfish and shallow routine, when my OB said that as long as I was out to see her, I might as well get my eyebrows done... So I was on bed rest, and continued to maintain my eyebrows and hair and chin to be hair free.

That dang PCOS screws up more than infertility, you know.

I am super self conscious about this. I was called ape in high school and it has stayed with me.

Also, some days I went to the NICU an absolute wreck. Some days I went dressed to the nines, either because I was trying to prove something, or because I really felt that good. Some moms react differently to the NICU experience, including having emotional trauma during and after the stay. I don't think that moms, like me with that, need to be judged.

12:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Too funny. Okay so maybe going through the whole ordeal of labor and then NICU is a bit much but seriously you cant take two minutes to shave your face? Unfortunately we are all about appearances these days and there is no excuse for not taking care of yourself. She doesnt need her hair done up, makeup, and fancy clothes. I mean you can't go to work looking crappy as a professional and blame it on all the problems in your life.

2:22 AM  
Anonymous misha said...

ND--I'm not sure how old you are, but just remember this: when you turn 45-50 or so... Suddenly your patient families will be distracted by nose and ear hair that never used to be there. Your parents will wonder what's up with you!!!! Personal trimmer time!!!!!!

9:22 AM  
Anonymous Dianne said...

Somehow felix, kelley, et al are making me want to grow a mustache. Just for the shock value. People who declare it a moral outrage when women (or men) don't conform exactly to the social standards of how they "should" look tend to do that to me.

But my contraian impulses aside, yeah, some people look a little...unexpected. People with relatives, especially kids, in the hospital perhaps moreso than usual. How can you help noticing it? I wouldn't worry about your tendency to notice--or even think derogatorially about it--unless you actually treat your patients differently based on how good looking you think their mothers are.

One other note. Are you sure that all the women you saw with facial hair were really women? Maybe they're pre-op transsexuals and have facial hair that would look nice on men because they really are men...just not yet genitally corrected to their true gender and therefore able to still have children in their birth gender.

11:13 AM  
Blogger Laura said...

i remember that happy days episode too!

11:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yep, a woman with a moustache is surprising -- i certainly would have noticed! -- but come on, Felix, Kelley, anonymous 2:22 -- do we women really have an *obligation* to keep up with shaving / waxing / bleaching?? If it helps a woman's self-esteem, great -- go for it -- but if not, why judge?

-- anne in jersey (who refused, unlike some fellow jersey-ans, to get a bikini wax before her EDD!)

11:31 AM  
Blogger Kelley said...

No obligation, nor did I say anything about moral outrage, lol. I simply said I was tired of hearing excuses such as having a NICU baby, hormones, etc. If she feels like she looks good with the moustache, then cheers to her. I don't really care what other people do but I am so sick of the woe-is-pitiful-me song and dance.

12:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Neonatal Doc - I know this is off the subject but I have a general question... How long should a UAC be left in? The hospital that I work in leaves them in over two weeks and we've seen cases of aortic thrombosis. According to the research that I can find, 10 days is the max. What does your hospital do?

1:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it can be a surprise when you take the baby to the mom and she has a full beard,kinda hard to keep from staring,poor lady

3:26 PM  
Anonymous Sammy's mom said...

When my son was younger and beginning to examine facial features, it was around the Halloween season. I came across a package of self-adhesive mustaches, so I bought a package. I applied the little mustaches (when no one else was around), and it gave my son the opportunity to see this silly mustache on Mommy's face, see the contrast of the dark mustache against my fair skin, and it gave him sensory input when I'd kiss him on the cheek or he would touch the mustache with his fingers.

Maybe this NICU mom is just very proactive in getting her child prepared for early intervention therapies?!

5:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you won't be putting MILF in the doctor's notes?

9:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why should someone's preference regarding my facial hair change what I do with it? Why shave? Why change our bodies to fit your preferences for dainty hairless pre-adolescent-looking ladies. Women have hair. We have hair on our legs, our arms, our armpits, our genitals, and sometimes even OUR FACES. The natural human form is nothing to be ashamed of.

10:39 PM  
Anonymous Alex said...

I'm female and thankfully have never had to struggle with any kind of facial hair issue. But I think I've got to agree with ND and the Fonz on this one...LOL!

10:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are some things that are just plain distracting and a moustache on a woman would be one of them. I also find women who look like men, men who look like women or people who you can't tell which sex they are distracting as well. Sorry, they just spook me out a bit when you have something that is so distracting and out of the ordinary.

There is this one store that I visit occasionally where the cashier is a man dressed as a woman. He walks like a man, you can see his beard under his make-up, he has a very prominent adam's apple and then he has a female name on his nametag. He wears pantyhose and Birkenstock open sandals on his feet. I don't know many women who wear pantyhose any more; most wear tights or bare legs. On top of it, he dresses like a middle age or much older woman. Go figure. You can't help but notice, since it's really distracting since all of his mannerisms are those of a man.

Call me old fashioned, but I think the moustaches should be left to the men.

11:23 PM  
Blogger Surgeon in my dreams said...! No other blog has touched a nerve like this one!! Way to go NeoDoc.

I have had PCOS since I was 17 years old. I have a testosterone level that some young guys would be proud of. By 18, I had severe hirsutism. I am now 46 years old and have shaved my face every day of my life for at least 25 years.

I did the electrolysis - spents hundreds of dollars I could not really spare. IT DID NOT WORK!! I have done the waxing and the creams - it HURTS and it broke my face out in sores which turned to scabs which I am sure were more noticeable than the hirsutism until they finally went away. I have been on Spironolactone. If it is out there - I have tried it. The stuff I have not tried, there are medical reason I cannot.

Hirsutism is not the only price I have paid for PCOS, but it was by far the most damaging to my emotional health, because of people like those who made a couple of these comments! I also have broad shoulders, hairy arms, and a couple of other problems experienced more by men than women. Lucky me - and other women out there like me.

Does anyone out there honestly believe a woman would CHOOSE to have a beard??? Do you not think if there was something that worked they would not be using it????Imagine being a young man (or for that matter a 46 year old one like me) and walking around with boobs...think it would be embarassing? Think he would get made fun of???? Think if he could afford some way to get rid of them he wouldn't????

When I met my husband 6 years ago, imagine the horror I felt the first time he touched my face! I am so glad that hunk of a good looking man did not have the same shallow mindset a lot of people have or he would have missed out on getting to know me.

One good thing came from my developing hirsutism as a young girl and living with it all these will NEVER, EVER hear me make fun of nor laugh at anyone for their circumstances or their looks.

I am gonna hush now...before I stroke.

Still love ya NeoDoc - as usual.

9:20 AM  
Blogger neonataldoc said...

What a riot blogging can be. Who would have thought that a little post on facial hair would arouse so many comments? Thanks for all the comments and stories. The unusual thing about this woman was that in other respects, she was pretty neat and well groomed. The moustache seemed out of keeping with the rest of her.

I sympathize with women with PCOS - polycystic ovarian syndrome. Surgeon in my dreams gives a good account of the problems it can cause. But even she apparently shaves her face, unlike this woman.

Also, let me say that this woman can do anything she wants with her face. My relationship with her won't change (it was a good relationship) based on her facial hair or lack thereof.

Misha, you are so right. Why is it that after 4 or 5 decades ear and hair nose start growing?

I'm trying to figure out what MILF stands for but with no success so far.

As far as for how long to leave UAC's (umbilical artery catheters) in, that's not a short answer question. Suffice it to say I try to get them out as soon as I can. Even in the tiniest babies I don't like to keep them in for more than about a week.

12:08 PM  
Blogger Laura said...

neodoc: MILF is a Mom I would Like to F***.
I learned what that meant from my fist born's ex-boyfriend.

12:40 PM  
Blogger mnmom said...

NEONATAL DOC I've been reading your posts for quite some time since I find it interesting what you have to say (I am the mother of a 26 weeker). I've never commented but I must say that this topic and subsequent comments are quite interesting and struck a chord that I must comment on.

First of all, my 26 weeker is now
2 years old with hirsutism. The hisutism was caused by the fact that he has an umbilical artery catheter left in for 27 days while he was in the NICU; subsequently got a clot in his aorta which caused him to suffer from acute renal failure. (The comment from anonymous with regard to UAC's was so ironic here and I beg her/him to talk to the hospital administrators or their charge nurse for the doctors to change their procedure!)

After a hospital transfer, he beat the odds and survived but he lost one kidney and has renal artery stenosis in the other due to the clot... He has got severely high blood pressure (due to the renin released by the dysfunctional kidneys). At one year old, we realized that his bp was 200/100 and spent 2 and a half weeks in the hospital trying to regulate the medications to control the blood pressure. He is on minoxodil (rogaine) and now I have to shave his face regularly. His entire body is covered w/ hair - he hates wearing clothes because it is itchy. The minoxodil is working well at controlling the blood pressure (along with five other blood pressure medications) until he can have surgery to try to fix the kidneys (remove the bad one; graph the artery of the good one). He will likely be on the minoxodil for a couple of more years and right now the hair is blonde but I guess the tendency is that it will turn darker. My fear is that he will be teased by the other kids (he already gets stares or comments from adults) for having hair all over.

I am so grateful for the NICU doctors in saving my son's life but I have a hard time dealing with the fact that he now has chronic kidney problems (and now hypertrophy of the left ventricle of the heart because of the undetected bp issues) because of the fact that the NICU doctors left the UAC in for so long while any information that I can find says that the maximum they should be left in is 10 days. It has really tore me apart because of the anger that I feel towards the doctors while at the same time being grateful to them. I would have a much easier time in dealing with the problem if this was a split-second decision in which a single doctor made the wrong decision and it caused my son problems; however, this was appears to be a conscious decision by three doctors to leave the UAC in for so long. Did they not know what the medically accepted procedure was? Did they not care? The UAC even stopped working on day 24, but they still didn't take it out for THREE MORE DAYS. There were days when his foot was blue (they put a heat pack on it) and the UAC was "sluggish" but they still left it in. (I've went over the doctor's and nurse's notes in an attempt to understand why they would do this!)

Is my anger justifiable?

As far as hair growth, I know that it is politically incorrect and that is why I shave my son's face and forehead and neck... I leave the back, the butt, the legs and the stomach alone since no one can see it. People are cruel and they do stare at him if I don't do it.

12:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uhhh.....anonymous 11:23, I wear pantyhose all the time. And I'm in no way conservative or old (I'm 29). Tights are actually what's rare, except among teenagers, and bare legs aren't a good idea when it's winter in the Northeast.

Oh yeah, and I don't have a moustache either.

6:26 PM  
Blogger ali said...

Could we come up with something more important to get upset about than a man noticing out of place facial hair on a woman. All he noticed was that it was out of place, not that it affected the the manner in which he dealt with her or the treatment he gave her child. And frankly, speaking as a woman, I have a hard time understanding why someone with such prominent facial hair wouldn't take care of it. And not because I feel the need to "be pretty at all times," but because taking care of me makes me feel better about me, regardless of who else is looking. It must be exhausting to be constantly on guard for potential moral outrage.

11:03 PM  
Blogger Surgeon in my dreams said...

Ali...Don't know about anyone else who was bothered by the post, but for me it was the comment from the post which read, "This otherwise very nice and seemingly normal woman goes around with a moustache", as if her having a medical condition which causes hirsutism and her not jumping through hoops in order to appease everyone else made her less than a "normal woman".

As far as your comment of "It must be exhausting to be constantly on guard for potential moral outrage", You might be happy to know it is not exhausting at all.

You don't have to wait very long before some people with more shallow mind-sets will come along and make judgements about how we should "take care of" things that we didn't ask for yet feel we must do something about so that none of the otherwise perfect people will be offended.

"Could we come up with something more important to get upset about than a man noticing out of place facial hair on a woman"....
we 'came up' with the topic because that is exactly what the post was about.

I don't think anyone loves NeoDoc any less, we're just stating our opinions, which I would assume he welcomes both by posting and allowing comments.

Have a great weekend everyone!!

9:05 AM  
Blogger neonataldoc said...

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and I'm always interested to see comments, whether they agree with me or not, as long as they're civil.

Mnmom, best wishes for your son.

8:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...just as "breastfeeding is *natural*" leads to people defecating on the dinner table.

I have been spending time with breastfeeding families for more than ten years now, first as a mother and subsequently as a breastfeeding counselor. I have never, in all my encounters with nursing mothers, run into anyone who wished to defecate on the dinner table. Or anywhere else inappropriate, for that matter.

Comparing a baby's right to nurse when he is hungry with a bizarre desire to engage in disease-causing behavior is at best inflammatory. Public breastfeeding and public toileting have precisely nothing in common.

Ironically, I read that comment while nursing my youngest son to sleep. It's a good thing he doesn't know yet that breastfeeding is hazardous to social norms. [snort]

8:58 PM  
Blogger Marcia said...

Neodoc's original post made me laugh, but surgeon in my dreams' comment made me ashamed for doing so.

Never know what will turn into a learning experience, I guess.

11:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Maybe they're pre-op transsexuals and have facial hair that would look nice on men because they really are men..."

dianne, from my experience with friends who are transitioning from female to male, the amount of testosterone necessary to start the process both tends to stop periods and to make pregnancy unwise. Eventually, ovaries have to be removed, or they're likely to become cancerous. If these women were transsexuals who had reached the point of having heavy mustaches solely because of testosterone, I seriously doubt they'd be in any position to get pregnant.

12:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I grew up in a family where vanity was frowned on and any concern with outward appearance was curtailed. As a result, I don’t wear makeup, nor do I wear clothing that makes me stand out in a crowd. Perhaps these women come from cultures where facial hair on women isn't a big deal. It is after all not a hygiene issue, it’s a personal/cultural choice that should be respected. PS. I don’t have a mustache, but if I did I wouldn’t shave it to fit your idea of public presentation.

1:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ND, you wrote about how it can't take much time to shave and apply a bit of makeup. I agree that this is true.

The thing is that removing facial hair, particularly for women with PCOS, is often not an emotionally-neutral act. It can represent a whole spectrum of emotions and issues relating to femininity, infertility, and the like.

If you see it as a time issue - why didn't she bother to take care of this? - it doesn't make sense at all. On the other hand, when you recognize that shaving one's face every morning, for a woman, can be an incredibly emotionally difficult task, then you can understand (I believe) why a woman might stop doing it during a difficult period in her life.

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12:59 PM  
Anonymous LisaMK said...

Extending it leads to not showering, just as "breastfeeding is *natural*" leads to people defecating on the dinner table.

What kind of moron confuses infant nutrition for taking a sh*t? Stunted in the brain there Felix.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi...I just came across this ...and HAD to comment!
I am a 39 y.o. FEMALE, who has a mushtache!!! I inherited it from both of my grandmothers. When I was a teenager, I had to make a choice how I would be dealing with my newly-growing mushtache for the rest of my life. One grandmother and her sisters used "Neet" or something like it. The other grandmother shaved eveyday -her whole life...and it showed by evening!
Well, I happened to be the only one of their combined 18 granddaughters who inherited this I made the decision to be PROUD-yes, I did say PROUD- of it. I have never shaved it, but I do keep it "nicely maintained". My husband has never had a problem with no one else on this earth should either!
Yes, I've gotten the stares and the comments. My gynocologist has tried proving that I had PCOS....but alas!, genes do not show up on hormone tests!
As I have gotten older, "chin hair" became a "problem". I have chosen to keep the "chin hair" shaved and etc.
Those of you who insist on women looking a certain way might ought
to consider yourselves as "bigots" as any other narrow-minded person should.

5:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think "to each their own" What ever the person feels comfortable with. I know gals with facial hair and some with alot, I feel most good people would get to know the person before they judge, well I would like to hope! I am 42 and finding since I've stopped taking hormone med. I am get a little dark above the lip, and as a PERSONAL CHOICE, I will probably wax. I do admit I may have starred at the facial hair but only until I got to know the person, then it became invisable, or if I had known the person prior, I never really noticed.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the kind of thing that starts revolutions. Bra burning, anyone? As soon as anyone starts telling me that I should spend my time plucking, waxing, shaving, threading, dying, primping, etc. to keep up with appearances for the sake of making Them more comfortable with Me, I get cranky. I spent so much of my life making sure that no hair was out of place and I was attractive to everyone that I found it hard to do much else. As someone with a rich inner life, I find it mind numbingly dull to continue on in this fashion. If you don't like the look of my moustache, don't look at it. But don't tell me that I SHOULD do something about IT. It is society that has made these ridiculous rules for women to abide by, and most of the rules were written by men in the first place, back when women were chattel. Since I am not your or anyone else's property, I feel pretty good about letting my hair grow. And the look on your face when you see it tells me all I need to know about what kind of person you are.

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